Comments on: Abbas about to depart. What it means http://www.predictioneersgame.com/abbas-about-to-depart-what-it-means Using the Logic of Brazen Self-Interest to See and Shape the Future Thu, 17 Feb 2011 14:58:09 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: admin http://www.predictioneersgame.com/abbas-about-to-depart-what-it-means/comment-page-1#comment-53 admin Sat, 14 Nov 2009 23:01:49 +0000 http://www.predictioneersgame.com/?p=165#comment-53 Thank you for your thoughtful comment Danny. However, your statement of the right of return is an interpretation and there are others, such as the one I offered. I believe we will find that international law does not and will not support a fully open ended interpretation of the right of return but rather will take the narrow view of the UN Resolution which applies to few people still living as I believe international courts would interpret it today. But, of course, that remains to be analyzed, negotiated, and ultimately resolved. This would be a perfect problem for someone to model based on the positions the various interested parties will argue for rather than based on some currently unknown final interpretation of the law. Danny, want to build a data set and give it a try -- could be fun, informative and important. Thanks, Bruce Thank you for your thoughtful comment Danny. However, your statement of the right of return is an interpretation and there are others, such as the one I offered. I believe we will find that international law does not and will not support a fully open ended interpretation of the right of return but rather will take the narrow view of the UN Resolution which applies to few people still living as I believe international courts would interpret it today. But, of course, that remains to be analyzed, negotiated, and ultimately resolved. This would be a perfect problem for someone to model based on the positions the various interested parties will argue for rather than based on some currently unknown final interpretation of the law. Danny, want to build a data set and give it a try — could be fun, informative and important.
Thanks,
Bruce

]]> By: Danny Kohn http://www.predictioneersgame.com/abbas-about-to-depart-what-it-means/comment-page-1#comment-52 Danny Kohn Sat, 14 Nov 2009 17:29:21 +0000 http://www.predictioneersgame.com/?p=165#comment-52 Based on what you write I believe there is a little knowledge lacking on your part. Knowledge that I think will influence your calculations. "One of the allegedly big issues between the contending sides is the “right of return.” Now under a UN resolution from the late 1940s Palestinians born in what is now Israel would have a right of return. Of course, we are 60 years beyond the resolution so the number of people it actually covers is probably pretty small. This seems really to be more a symbolic issue than real, at least under international law." The problem is that normal definitions of what a refugee is does not seem to apply in this conflict. This conflict has a very special definition of what constitutes a refugee not found in any other conflict on the earth. "Under UNRWA's operational definition, Palestine refugees are persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine between June 1946 and May 1948, who lost both their homes and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 Arab-Israeli conflict. UNRWA's services are available to all those living in its area of operations who meet this definition, who are registered with the Agency and who need assistance. The descendants of the original Palestine Refugees are also eligible for registration. When the agency became operational in 1950, it was responding to the needs of about 750,000 Palestine refugees. Today, 4.6 million Palestine refugees are eligible for UNRWA services." (http://www.un.org/unrwa/refugees/whois.html) This means in fact that the number of refugees will increase indefinitely. Given that politically stated during centuries in arabic, the right of return always have been said to be more important than an own state and the fact that no serious internal work has been done on nation building, I think one must conclude that the leadership is not really interested in a "palestinian state side by side with Israel living in peace". I think their leaders are not interested in building a state because that would mean the world loosing it's interest in funding "the refugees", something that has shown to be a very lucrative business for all of the top echelon leaders. Based on what you write I believe there is a little knowledge lacking on your part. Knowledge that I think will influence your calculations.

“One of the allegedly big issues between the contending sides is the “right of return.” Now under a UN resolution from the late 1940s Palestinians born in what is now Israel would have a right of return. Of course, we are 60 years beyond the resolution so the number of people it actually covers is probably pretty small. This seems really to be more a symbolic issue than real, at least under international law.”

The problem is that normal definitions of what a refugee is does not seem to apply in this conflict. This conflict has a very special definition of what constitutes a refugee not found in any other conflict on the earth.

“Under UNRWA’s operational definition, Palestine refugees are persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine between June 1946 and May 1948, who lost both their homes and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 Arab-Israeli conflict. UNRWA’s services are available to all those living in its area of operations who meet this definition, who are registered with the Agency and who need assistance. The descendants of the original Palestine Refugees are also eligible for registration. When the agency became operational in 1950, it was responding to the needs of about 750,000 Palestine refugees. Today, 4.6 million Palestine refugees are eligible for UNRWA services.”

(http://www.un.org/unrwa/refugees/whois.html)

This means in fact that the number of refugees will increase indefinitely.

Given that politically stated during centuries in arabic, the right of return always have been said to be more important than an own state and the fact that no serious internal work has been done on nation building, I think one must conclude that the leadership is not really interested in a “palestinian state side by side with Israel living in peace”.

I think their leaders are not interested in building a state because that would mean the world loosing it’s interest in funding “the refugees”, something that has shown to be a very lucrative business for all of the top echelon leaders.

]]> By: Peter Quinn http://www.predictioneersgame.com/abbas-about-to-depart-what-it-means/comment-page-1#comment-51 Peter Quinn Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:00:08 +0000 http://www.predictioneersgame.com/?p=165#comment-51 Hi. I am a long time reader. I wanted to say that I like your blog and the layout. Peter Quinn Hi. I am a long time reader. I wanted to say that I like your blog and the layout.

Peter Quinn

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